#83 - Tactical Performance and Training the Mind to Not Quit - with Coach Greg Amorelli

Coach Greg Amorelli has spent decades under the bar, in uniform, and developing his craft. Navy Rescue Swimmer at 29. Army Infantry Officer at 40. His entry into the military was later than most - and instead of outworking father time, he started outsmarting it.

Most tactical athletes train to put bandaids on a bullet holes - fixing problems instead of avoiding them in the first place. Greg gives his tried and true approach to tactical training, staying power, and acquiring the skill to mentally endure when every fiber is telling you to quit.

Follow him here: @coach_greg_amorelli

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

What's going on, everybody? Welcome to the Everyday Responder podcast. We have a special guest, Coach Greg. Coach Greg, how are you?

SPEAKER_03 0:10

I'm great. Special guest. I feel I feel pretty honored.

SPEAKER_02 0:13

Very, very special.

SPEAKER_03 0:14

I don't know if I I hope I rate, but okay.

SPEAKER_02 0:18

You said you were a little tired today, right? You were up a little late last night?

SPEAKER_03 0:22

Yeah, I was well past my bedtime. My uh my stepdaughter and a boyfriend, uh, I took them to a concert last night, and um I don't think we we don't get back until like maybe 12 30 or so. I didn't get to bed till one. So that is I I'm usually like an in-bed around 8 30, 9 o'clock kind of guy. So I'm always up at 4 a.m. Um either training somebody or working out myself. And uh so yeah, I was actually closer to my alarm time than I was when I go to bed time.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

Are you the are you the type that takes naps? Are you just like, okay, let's just be tired today and let's go back, let's get back on track.

SPEAKER_03 0:55

Oh yeah, I I love naps. Thanks uh to the military, maybe thank you to the military. It kind of depends on you know what comes out of it, but I I do have the ability to kind of sleep anywhere. Um, and so a lot of times when I'm at the gym, uh I'll just I'll just lie down on the matted floor and just out for a bit.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 1:16

Well, like 10 or 15 minutes, I wake up and I'm feeling good. Once again, I think that's thanks thanks to the military. It kind of trains it in you.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

That's awesome. Good for you. Yeah, I can't really for some reason I can't really take naps. It's just like I usually just bite the bullet, be tired all day. Um kind of how old are you? I'm 30.

SPEAKER_03 1:33

Okay, that's that's why you gotta wait until you get into your 40s. That's like you got some time.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

No, but you you mentioned the the military uh either helping you with this or or potentially hurting you, we don't know yet. Um but I'd love to know a little bit about your your background or if you could tell the the listeners a little bit about you know your experience with the military.

SPEAKER_03 1:54

Yeah, definitely. Um, so 16-ish years in the military, four years till retirement. God, I can't wait. That's gonna be awesome. Um, good time, though. It was really good time. Military definitely had a positive impact on my life for sure. Um it was a little while, you know, uh 16, 17 years ago. Well, here, let me go back when I was 27 years old. I was uh coaching at the time. I just started coaching, it was about two and a half, three years in, and I was a head coach of a swim team. Now, youth sports, if you didn't know, don't exactly pay the bills very well. And uh this one really did not pay the bills very well. I think I was uh I was making something like $28,000 a year. I had student loans to pay for, I was trying to live on my own, like gas, food, and a lot of times I had to pay my own way to coach at the swim meet. So I had to pay, sometimes I'd pay for my own hotel, my own gas, my own food. So it was I was I was kind of in a rough place uh at 27 years old. And I think I was working a few other jobs just to make ends meet. And um I really just trying to figure out what the heck am I gonna do with my life. And uh I was rooting around in my parents' garage, you know, just kind of looking through some of my old stuff, and I found this box, and in the box I found a bunch of my old journals. And uh so I found this journal when I was 10 years old. I started flipping through it, and it's all like classwork stuff, but every page was decorated with doodles, and all these doodles were like Navy aircraft carriers and jet fighters and guys jumping out of Navy helicopters, and I really started to think, I'm like, man, it seems like 10-year-old me really had something figured out. Um, I wonder, I wonder if this is a job. So I kind of picked one of the doodles and I was like, well, this looks cool, jumping out of helicopters into the ocean. I wonder if this is an actual job. Sure enough, it is, uh Navy rescue swimmer. And I a few weeks later, I was down at uh down at the recruiting center and uh taking my uh my ASVAB and the the rest is is history. You know, I did uh six years in the Navy as a as a search and rescue swimmer, um four four-ish deployments, like we had two deployments out on the carrier. And then our unit, we got back from our our uh second deployment, and a few months later we forwarded deployed to Japan. And then from Japan, from Japan, we uh we pushed out two more times. So, however you want to chalk that up as far as deployments go. Uh and then did some private work. Uh, worked for a company called Air Rescue Systems down in Southern Oregon. Uh, and they do private search and rescue. Um, a lot of training. Pretty good company. Uh do a lot of training, do some work with the local sheriff's department for uh you know missing people. Uh also I was the kind of the US liaison to the uh US and Ministry of Defense as they were changing their SAR contracts. Like you remember the big yellow helicopters, the UK is famous for for SAR. So those kind of went away. And one of the first stations that they swapped was down in the Falkland Islands. So ARS had the had the contract uh for that. And so I was working with a British counterpart to kind of help facilitate that transition. And did that for about a year and a half, and it was it was great work, it was a lot of fun uh riding on helicopters, especially on the skids. Uh it's it's a blast. And uh, but I really did miss something about the military, and I decided that I wasn't quite done yet. So I got back in. This time I went National Guard uh infantry. I figured, you know, I I'd known what it was like to drop the guys off and have them do their stuff. I wanted to be one of the guys being dropped off to do my stuff. Um so I joined National Guard Infantry, did that for a few years, and then uh I already had a college degree, so I decided I was gonna become an officer. So became an infantry officer, um, deployed once to Kosovo, uh, did a little training mission in in Morocco. And at that point, uh I was just kind of searching for something else in my life. Um, I still wanted to be in the military, but infantry wasn't quite, I just wasn't there anymore in life. I mean, five years prior, six years prior, yeah, like I was I was all all for it. Um but I just I wanted more, I wanted something else. And so uh I switched over to the Army Reserves and went uh Army Civil Affairs officer, which is what I'm doing right now. And it's great, it's a fantastic job. Uh just got back from two-week annual training in Malaysia, been to the Philippines. Damn. Um it's just been a fantastic experience. So there it is. There's there's a military experience for that's really cool.

SPEAKER_02 6:55

This is like uh maybe maybe you should uh they should make a movie about you with the eye like that. It's just like picture per it seems picture perfect from the outside. Obviously, I know there was trials and tribulations, but um I'd love to know about the search and rescue like starting because I actually had somebody the other day ask a question and they were like, what do you think? You know, if I'm a little bit older in this context, I think they were you know late 20s. Um and it seems like you got a later start, but still clearly got a lot done. Um so were there you know any advantages going in with a little bit of life experience for you?

SPEAKER_03 7:33

Oh, absolutely. I would not have changed it for the world. Um I I went in with a with an idea of a little bit better idea of who I was and more importantly, how to apply myself. Um, and I think kind of going in with that mentality, uh, I garnered a little bit more respect from the instructors and the cadre. Um you know, don't get me wrong, like I wasn't treated any differently. Uh, but you know, I understood at that point. I understood my place in the pecking order, you know. I understood when I first got to my squadron, you know what my job was. My job was to take out the trash, my job was my job was to sweep the floors. My job was to do all the things that my seniors didn't want to do. Um, and I was always the first to volunteer. I would just, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't like a brown nosing kind of thing. I wasn't trying to like show off. It was just, all right, it if we're gonna get out of here, like if if taking out the trash and sweeping the floor is the one thing that is standing in the way of all of us getting out of here, um, as per the chief, uh, then I'm gonna sweep the floor and I'm gonna take out the trash. We can all get out of here. Um, I don't know. I just had a I had a little bit more of a go-to attitude. Um and yeah, that just progressed all the way through my my careers. I got I I had a good work mentality in the military, and that carried me a lot of far. Part of that was um just being a little bit older, having that life experience, that maturity. And uh gosh, but yeah, but I I still got my ass beat.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

You talk about physically and how how so, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 9:08

Oh god, I remember. So uh when I first started, you know, we all go through Navy basic training, and then the I don't know if it's still this way, but if you're a a any kind of special operations or special warfare candidate, um you after basic training, you go on to your school. Well, if you're on hold, uh, you know, you got legal hold or medical hold, there's record reviews, there's all kinds of different things. Um, they'll send you to kind of like a holding program. Now, for the rest of the Navy, I think you're like doing yard work and and cleaning up and mopping and you know, just all that kind of stuff. But for um special operations candidates, you are under the care of a bunch of SEAL SWICK and EOD guys. And uh uh you're called a scruff. So it's a special cannon under under further training. And uh man, I got I got lit up. But I tell you what though, it was honestly out of the 16 years of my military, I think it was the most transformational and uh possibly some of the best months of my of my life. And I I remember we had a um we had an instructor, instructor Barron, who I think is has passed away since um uh SB1 Barron. So he's uh he was a sweet guy, and he was ruthless, absolutely ruthless. I mean, this guy would go just crush triathlons and marathons on the weekend, like not train and sign up, just like go do that. And he was just ruthless with us. And I remember him telling us, listen, I'm gonna beat you harder here, and you're gonna get beat at your schools, because if you can survive me, you can survive any school you went to. And I mean, at least at least for rescue summer, he was true to his word. Um the re the rest of the pipeline was a cake uh after him. Um, but man, I appreciated him so much. Uh I in a weird way, I and this is gonna this is gonna be super weird, but I ended up learning to love the beatings. Um but but it wasn't like in a it wasn't like in a weird, funky way. It was more just like I finally had somebody pushing me to find my limits and what my potential was. And maybe being a little bit older, I recognized the value in that. And I really understood, I really started to understand like what I've been limiting myself to previous to that time and what I might be capable of looking forward. Um, and I think that was that was just such a profound moment for me.

SPEAKER_02 12:06

That's so cool. Yeah. When you get older, you you start kind of gaining that that wisdom and seeing like, okay, this actually has a purpose. Um you said SB1. Is that what you said? Yeah, SB1 Baron. SB1 Baron, like, okay, this sucks in the moment, but maybe he's teaching me bigger lessons where maybe the the younger, more naive, are just like, I hate that guy. Like, he's the worst. But yeah, yeah, it's cool kind of getting that.

SPEAKER_03 12:31

We had uh we had one one quick story, is like we we would tally up uh penalty points at the end of the week, and then we have to pay up at the end of the week, you know. And they had anything from uh they call the CVP is cardiovascular punishment. Um, I can't remember. There was like four movements, 10 repetitions in each movement, like star jumps, uh eight-count bodybuilders, and then like two more. Um and so one CVP was worth all four exercises, 10 reps. So 40 repetitions. That was one CVP, and we'd rack them up throughout the day, and we'd all have to pay up on Friday. And then, but the individual, like he'd you know, you'd rack up like push-ups. Every time he entered the office, he'd roll one of these uh uh Dungeons and Dragons dice. And luck of the draw, whatever you got, like add it to the tally. And I remember this was the first time in my life where I got I had to do a thousand push-ups. And I did it between 8 a.m. and 11 a.m. And I remember I was doing them all, and senior chief Rhodes came out and he was like, Amberly, what the hell are you doing? Like, do my push-up, senior chief. He's like, What number are you on? I was like, uh 980, you know, 986 or whatever. He's like, get to a thousand, get up off the floor and get out of my face. Roger. Roger. And uh, I mean, this coming from like when I first joined the Navy, uh, I went down to maps and I you know, I went down to um the recruiter and I signed up. And I was like, Well, I better, I better test my push-ups. You know, I'm gonna be doing a lot of them. I better test like where am I? I got six.

SPEAKER_02 14:08

Oh no.

SPEAKER_03 14:09

I got six. I think I got six and like a half of a pull-up. I was like, oh, I got some work to do.

SPEAKER_02 14:16

So that's so obviously you brought you you got them up. You whatever you did worked.

SPEAKER_03 14:22

Yeah, yeah. Actually, uh Stu Smith uh uh his 12 weeks to buds. Um I followed that. There's a pull-up uh pull-up and push-up emphasis in there. And he had a he had another separate push-up program um that uh he recommended, and that thing worked. I still use it to this day. It works like gold. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:45

Coach uh Coach Smith is is awesome. We actually had him on. He was the he was the first guest that we've ever had on the uh on the podcast. So we really we started off with a started off with a bang. I was grateful, grateful that uh he accepted the uh the request.

SPEAKER_03 15:00

But it's all downhill after that. Now you got some shows like me on the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 15:07

We're trending up. But um so yeah, the you you talked about the Navy search and rescue. Um, then you mentioned the army and then OIC. So I'm I mean, I'm assuming that you went through that at you know late mid mid-30s, late 30s.

SPEAKER_03 15:26

Yeah, so I had to go when I went back into the army, um, I wasn't a combat arms from another service. So I had to go back through basic training. Oh basic training number two, yeah. And so I did army basic training. Now, fortunately, there was a bit of a stipulation in there where it's like if you were prior service, they did afford you certain, I don't know, like certain passes on things. Um, but it was never it was never really given. It was earned. In fact, I remember the um uh the first sergeant in my company pulled me and there were two others this uh prior service society, and he said, listen, I'm gonna give you guys enough rope to hang yourself. He's like, by the regulation, I'm supposed to give you XYZ, and I'm gonna give you XYZ until you step out of line just a little bit, and then I'm gonna take that back. Um, because I guess he got he was uh he told us later, you know, he had gotten screwed over by uh some prior service in in previous uh previous companies. So, you know, I pulled the guys aside and I was like, hey, we're not messing this up. We're we're going full bore. And we ended up doing that. Like we gosh man, we we had let's say we had a good time, um, but we we tried our best to excel in everything we did. And uh I ended up I think I ended up being like number one in the PT in the company for PT. Nice um which I was 37 at the time? Yeah, I was 37 at the time. So there's a bunch of 18-year-olds um, you know, that were that were there. I think a few of them were old enough to be my kids.

SPEAKER_02 17:20

Did you make any changes physically? Or or let me ask you this. Were there any deficiencies where you were uh where you were like, damn, I wish I would have taken this more serious with your your training overall?

SPEAKER_03 17:32

Um that's a really good question. Um yeah, actually there is, and what's kind of funny is that this there's a moment, well not a moment, but this experience that it I was kind of in the process of uncovering at the time, uh is I guess how I kept becoming a coach. Like it's it's where I'm at today, why I am where I am today. Um in the Navy, uh I ended up getting a back injury. Um so we were I was at uh Navy SAR school and we were doing fireman carries uh across the football field. And I'll remember I was I picked up this one guy, short guy, Carlos Sacertia, uh, who we graduated together. But I picked him up and I was fireman carrying across the field, turning around, coming back, running, and I set him down and I couldn't get back up. I was like, oh crap. And um man, it was it was painful. Um and so for the next, you know, finishing out SAR school, and then when I went to my FRS, my frack, um I got, I remember I had to roll off the bed, I hobbled to the uh sink and I would like bend over and I would like lean on the counter and brush my teeth and shave, do all the things, and then be like, all right, ready? One, two, three, and stand up. And uh I trained that way for like two years. Um when I got to San Diego uh for my FRS, um, fleet replace replacement squadron. Um I went out on my own dime and saw like the best chiropractor in San Diego. And it was just like, you know, crack, crack, see you next week, crack, crack, see you next week. And uh I just I didn't want to get med rolled, right? If you get med rolled a lot of times, they'll they'll drop you from the program. And that wasn't gonna happen with me. Um, and then I remember I was at this uh at this Travis Mannion run um at uh Mission Gorge in San Diego, and there was a um physical therapist there that was kind of doing like pre pre-race like adjustments and massages and you know what whatever they can do, assessments and all that kind of stuff. I was like, Yeah, okay, you know, I'll go talk to her. And you know, I ended up talking to her and she's like, you know, I told her about my back and she's she looked at me, she did a few like movement stuff. She's like, it's not just your back, it's your hips. What are you talking about? It's my hips. Yeah, it's my hips, like or like it's my it's my back. I feel it on my back. What are you talking about? And she's like, Listen, here's my card. I want you to come see me. I'll do an assessment on you. Totally free. So okay, this is great. So I go in and do the assessment. She does it for a little bit, and she's like, All right, I'm so convinced it's your hips, I'm so sure it's your hips. I need you to do these exercises for the next two weeks. If you are not 50% better, I'll treat you for free. Like, deal. Yeah, for sure. You know, at this point, I'd sunk so much money into the chiropractor that like, you know, and I at the time I think I was like an E4, so it's not like I was rolling in the money. Um, and so we had a we had a two-week uh out chop on the stennis where we were just doing like uh carrier qualifications. And every day, every day I did these these stretches and some foam rolling work on my hips on my psoas. And you know, she was right. Two weeks later, I was like 95% better. And I was really big into body weight at the time, so like I could do all the push-ups, I could do all the pull-ups, you know, bodyweight squats, but I didn't spend as I didn't spend a lot of time on my posterior chain. You know, back then, uh there was no H2F, uh, there was no tactical strength and conditioning uh worth a mention. Um I don't think the book actually got published until 2012, right? Um yeah, but there was no there was none of that. So where did we get our workouts? Bodybuilding.com. And bodybuilding.com was all about the front body. And uh so deadlifts, for example, weren't weren't in the weren't in the protocol. And so I I tell you that story to kind of go back to your original, like is there one exercise? Deadlifts. You know, I didn't deadlift because I thought I'd injure my back. Well, I injured my back because I didn't because I didn't deadlift, yeah. And so everybody, everybody, I don't care if it's a If it's a firefighter, you know, an 18-year-old getting ready to, you know, go off to wanting to train for buds, or a 70-year-old lady that I'm working with. Any of those that I'm working with, we're going to deadlift. And we're going to do it properly. We're going to learn about bracing. We're going to learn about activating the glutes. We're going to learn about the mechanics of it. Um getting the load in your center of gravity, all that kind of stuff. We're going to learn all about that. And uh that was that was one. If I if I could go back and I can give with 18-year-old me, if I can give 28-year-old me uh an exercise uh to focus on deadlifts. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

The the posterior, it it fuels the machine. It really does.

SPEAKER_03 22:45

Yeah, it does. And if you don't have it, it's going to kill you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

It's funny that you are not, it's not funny, but even with your uh your hips, I've found like that is is usually you can I can't say for certain, but that's usually the root cause. Like even myself, if my lower back's like a little bit off, it's like it's probably because I have tight hips. And it can go obviously up or down the chain. So it's super interesting um with the hips and and why they need some some focus points, whether that's mobility or posterior chain.

SPEAKER_03 23:13

Yeah, yeah. And that's I always find it's it's usually a combo, right? Um, you know, even even tactical athletes do spend a lot of time sitting. Um, you know, for me, I spent a lot of time sitting in the helicopter. Uh, and you've got this, you know, multi-thousand-pound metal hunk of metal like vibrating in the air, sitting on a cold troop seat. Um, it's like, yeah, no wonder your back hurts. Uh, but yeah, I I I find that it's you know usually a lot of tightness, it's a lot of um, you know, lack of core engagement, uh, lack of glute engagement, maybe overtight uh quads. So we got this anterior tilt in the pelvis. Um, and I, you know, I I'm I'm pretty I'm I'm happy that I was able to experience that so that I could help others uh either avoid that or come back from that. I and I that's one of the things I love doing with tactical athletes. I love um working with because it's not always the case, you know, some people will get fractures in their spine, or it's you know, uh some kind of some kind of um um body work that I'm I'm not qualified to do. Um but a lot of the time, I I'd say nine out of ten times I'm able to kind of help them at least get out of a little bit of back pain. And that that fills my cup because I know how bad it is.

SPEAKER_02 24:39

For sure. Yeah, and you know, I'm making an assumption here, so correct me if I'm wrong. It's uh it's usually or the solution is usually pretty, pretty like basic oriented, right? We're not going crazy bosu ball balancing. We're sticking with the basics. Is that a good assessment?

SPEAKER_03 24:58

Yeah, that's a that's a that's a really good assessment on there. You know, I'll do um always start out we'll you know, doing the assessment, kind of see like what their pain levels are, how they're moving. I'll do a postural assessment every time, you know, because guaranteed, like almost guaranteed, if if they have that anterior tilt, um, if if they're not experiencing back pain, I think they will at some point. You know how to crystal ball in these things, but um it's yeah, I try to help people avoid that as much as possible. But yeah, we'll do some uh release work and stretching first because obviously you gotta you gotta get the tissue moving right before you can load it. Um and then yeah, we'll spend some time doing glute activation, we'll spend some time learning how to brace. Um I'm actually doing a presentation um Tuesday with the Northwest Tactical Conference, uh just about proper core activation, how to brace. Um, because I think that's one thing that you know, I think that's still uh a lot of tactical athletes, a lot of people in general just don't know how to do it properly. Um and I think this country is still the the fitness culture is still looking at like, well, six pack abs um as like, oh, it must be you must have strong core. Well, you can have six pack abs and a really strong core and a really wrecked back. Um you know, so how to how to what is what is core strength actually mean? Uh so I'm looking forward to that presentation. It's gonna be it's gonna be good.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Yeah, no, that definitely sounds awesome. I saw uh you did a a post uh not too long ago of uh bracing techniques that was really good.

SPEAKER_03 26:33

Oh, good, good. Yeah, glad you glad you liked it. Yeah, I it's uh that's that's kind of one of the big thing, um big things I focus on for tactical athletes, especially if they come to me with back pain. Um, and again, you know, I'm I'm not a physical therapist, I'm a coach. Um, I am not a chiropractor, so I really try to stay in my lane. I guess how I kind of look at it is I can identify muscle weaknesses, and then I as a strength coach, I strengthen those weaknesses. You know, I I identify lack of mobility because I'm also a mobility coach, and then I make those areas mobile, right?

SPEAKER_01 27:10

But that's cool.

SPEAKER_03 27:12

I can't uh I can't diagnose, I can't, I can't do any of that any of that other stuff. So as a coach, you always gotta kind of know your lane a little bit and understand where the gray areas are and and how to how to work that, but yeah, you really gotta know when to refer out to.

SPEAKER_02 27:25

So a hundred percent. Yeah, so you talked a lot about tactical athletes, you mentioned uh firefighters, police. What what makes a tactical athlete? Like how does a tactic how in your opinion, what makes a tactical athlete different than a traditional athlete?

SPEAKER_03 27:42

Um good question. So I I kind of have three different categories that I work with, right? So you got uh general population on one end of the spectrum, you got professional athletes on the other end of the spectrum, and you got tactical athletes right in the middle. Um, and I always say, you know, uh a professional athlete is like a sword, right? They want to find their their strength, whatever, whatever sport their strength demands, and they are just sharpening that that edge, right? Um they're working on their weaknesses only so much as it doesn't hinder their strengths, right? So, for example, you take a power lifter. Power lifter is not gonna have to go run a 5k. Um maybe they do, maybe they want to do that, that's fine. But if they want to optimize for lifting the heaviest weight possible, um they're probably not gonna spend a lot of time running. But they might do uh some walking, they might do a light jogger or something like that to kind of help with uh recovery and blood flow and that kind of stuff, right? Uh so uh they spend as much time as possible, well they they spend as much time as possible optimizing their strengths while making sure that their weaknesses don't hinder the strengths. A tactical athlete is a little bit different. A tactical athlete has their strengths, but they have to bring their weaknesses up to performance level. Right? So think of if if a regular athlete is like a knife or a or a sword, uh, a tactical athlete is that Gerber multi-tool, right? Uh every every tool has to have an edge on it. Every tool has to be uh operating optimally at some point, like to some level or another. And you know, if you lift heavy, that's fantastic. Well, you also gotta run. Well, you only run, okay. Well, you're gonna have to lift things too. So kind of keeping all of those uh those edges sharp.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

I really like that. That that breakout's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 29:47

Yeah. But that's that's how I see it. And I actually see um I actually see general population as if if military or tactical athletes are that Gerber multi-tool, uh general population is the uh the Swiss Army knife, right? They kind of have the same, you know, we we they've got to be good in a lot of, they've got to be able to move over some distance, they've got to be able to lift things safely. So um I actually kind of think tactical athletes are a little bit more akin to general population, an optimal performing general population person, than than maybe like a professional athlete. And also, too, with the professional athlete, you've got uh you've got access to so many different resources. Um as a tactical athlete, maybe you've got a uh brigade-level H2F program where you've got a PT and uh a mental performance coach and a strength coach, maybe, maybe a dietitian, but not not in any of these reserve units or guard units, and you know, some of the the police departments and fire departments, there's there's this some you know, some kind of health program there, but doesn't necessarily mean you have access to all that stuff.

SPEAKER_02 31:00

So yeah, that's that's really cool. Something I say is you know, strong enough, fast enough, and powerful enough. Like that's that's it. We don't need to be, you know, professional athletes, like one one dimensional, one dimensional professional athletes. But I think it's very important because you know, so many people will say, Oh, I want to improve my runtime, therefore I'm just going to run. And I'm like, Well, no, you need to be like strong as well. Like, let's slow down a little bit. And the same thing, like, oh, I want to get strong, I'm only going to power lift. It's like, well, then you're also going to be a liability when you are called upon, right? So we need to absolutely balance of everything.

SPEAKER_03 31:39

Absolutely. Um, and I think that's uh I think you're starting to see this shift. Well, not starting to, it's been the shift has been happening for several years of this kind of this more hybrid athlete um concept. And now it's it's it's a little uh it's a little it's a little overdone in the media. Um, but the the concept still stands true.

unknown 32:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:04

Yeah, the the hybrid athlete. I actually read um, I don't know, Alex Viata. Are you familiar with Alex Viata? Yeah. So he coined the coined the term. I forget when, but I just read his uh his new book. It's actually in the corner there, the ultimate hybrid athlete. Um very, very solid read. And it's it's so funny that like okay, we can we can do all things, and that does not mean that you need to be be mediocre at all things. We just need to start properly programming where we don't need to just obliterate ourselves on a week-to-week basis to make progress. I think that's the one thing that I try to beat in people's heads, they're like, oh, this looks too easy, and I'm like, good, like then train harder, right? Yeah, that's the that's I don't know, it's so frustrating.

SPEAKER_03 32:46

That uh that book was actually that was actually pretty uh pretty uh keystone for me. Um I remember can't remember where I saw it, or maybe I heard him on a podcast when it first came out. And I was I was on a trip to uh to England at the time, and uh actually I think it was with uh ARS. And um I I downloaded it just on my phone, and I was like, I'll give this, I'll give this a read. And I crushed it. I actually crushed it on the way to England. Nice. And then I reread it on the way back. Um yeah, it was really great book. I'm looking forward to seeing the new one. I didn't know he had a new one out.

SPEAKER_02 33:26

Yeah, it's uh it's really solid, and it goes through um a ton of different programming for each different goal and like gives you a bunch of uh examples. So really, really solid read. Um, I thought it was I thought it was phenomenal and a great resource in that. Yeah. Um yeah, so you had said, I saw this, you know, you said creating the fortress within for the mission ahead. And I think that that is a perfect, you know, depiction or definition of what tactical athletes should be focusing on. Can you go into a little bit more detail about what that means practically?

SPEAKER_03 34:02

Yeah, um, so practically, that's I um I'm gonna go back to the to the core uh idea, core strength. Um I really believe uh personally that that core strength is foundational. Um if I can't remember who said it. Somebody's somebody was saying it's like if you have core strength, nothing else matters. If you don't have core strength, nothing else matters. Um so I really believe like it's gotta be, not only has it gotta be a mainstay in training, uh, but it's gotta be uh kind of one of the first things that you address in in training. The reason why is because, you know, and this, you know, my presentation on Tuesday goes into this quite a bit, how uh, you know, core strength is not it's not a muscle, right? So I always I always take clients and and and athletes as like, okay, show me your core. Where's your core? And invariably about eight or nine out of ten of them will like point to their abs. Yeah. Um, a few of them, one or two, might be like, well, is it kind of like this area? And so if anybody, you know, if we walk away from our our talks, uh, somebody listening to this can walk away from our talk, uh, remembering nothing else. I think the core is not a muscle, it's not even a group of muscles, it's a relationship between those muscles, right? All the muscles in your trunk. I can have a I can have six back abs for days. Uh, but if I can't um if I can't properly brace, if I can't get the obliques involved, if I can't get my lats to to contract and attach to the abdominal muscles uh with tension, um then it's not gonna be very successful. Whatever I'm doing, whether I'm lifting uh uh a barbell or uh an ammo can or whatever it might be. And so that concept of like building the fortress within it, it starts with with core strength. Because the core's got, you know, I see the core as having like two main functions when it comes to performance, especially tactical performance. Uh number one, its job is to, you know, there's an inner core to kind of brace to protect the the spine and the low back, um, in particular the low back. And then uh the second purpose is to transfer power, right, from from the appendages. So upper body to lower body, lower body to upper, front to back, side to side, all that stuff. And if if you're not able to properly brace, you're not able to have good core strength, then you know, that power transfer just turns into a weak signal. Uh and that weak signal with the energy leaks is is a front door for uh for injury. And then that's you know, I learned that the hard way in my youth, you know. I learned my youth, 20, 28, 29 at the time. Um but that's that was the lesson, that was the big lesson I walked away with. So yeah, creating that's that forces within is is starting the core, making your body uh making your body strong. And not only that, like there's this kind of thing is like, well, listen to your body, listen to what your body says. And that's fair, but the other side of that is like you also gotta understand what your body's telling you. Um you know, and that's regards to to bracing and tension and feeling that tension. What's not tense, uh, you know, is you're bracing something, you know, it's good when you're starting to be like, okay, can I can I can I tense my core? Can I brace my core? Can I get my lats involved? What about my glutes, right? But then the other part of that too is like, okay, what is what is not tense? Because that's where you're gonna get injured. Um, that goes with uh, you know, listening to your body goes with pain, understanding what pain is, um, to various different levels. What's discomfort? What's the difference between discomfort and and pain? What can I push through and what what requires some some rest or some intervention? And that's that's not an easy thing. Like as a coach, like you can't you can't just tell somebody that like it it almost has to be developed over time.

SPEAKER_02 38:09

So yeah, like with most most things worth doing, it takes some practice, like that skill acquisition piece that I think a lot of people try to rush through, whether it's training your core, like yeah, I hope people don't hear that and they're like, all right, I'm just gonna go blast my core every single day. Like, because I I feel like that's sometimes what we do as as tactical athletes. I say all the time, we are stubborn, we're not stupid, but you'll hear something, and then it's like, all right, I'm gonna go sprint or or do my core work and I'm just gonna obliterate the core. Um, but any advice? I know obviously there is a ton of nuance here, so um, you know, feel free to give more like general recommendations or things that you do with athletes. Um, but with the core, is that something that you would do as like a primer, like to initiate those things throughout the session? Is that something that you put at the end of the session, before the main lifts, after the main lifts? Like just generally, how would you you think about that? And again, I know there's a lot of nuance depending on the person, but um just general recommendations.

SPEAKER_03 39:09

No, that that's actually that's actually a great question. I, you know, I as coaches, you look at other programs. Sometimes you use a little bit, you borrow from this program, you borrow from that program, you make a program depending on the person. But you know, I I did notice a while ago that like almost all the programs they put the core the core work in the end, kind of like an afterthought. I put it in the beginning. I I want that, I want that turned on, right? If um if the core is gonna be a failure point, the main failure point in like a deadlift, I want that on, right? I'm not gonna save that for later. Uh, I mean, some people, depending on what the movements are that day, sure, we'll put that in the end. But if I've got some heavy lifting, you know, I want that turned on. And so I know one of the things that I do that I don't know many other coaches that do this, is uh this concept of like a lifting belt. So lifting belts are used a lot for like you know, higher level athletes or when you're lifting the heavy things. I put them on brand new people. Um, I put I it it I'll put them on brand new people. I'll put them on for body weight, I'll put it on for like dumbbell or kettlebell work for goblet squats, for example. Uh, because what you gotta realize is like the lifting belt, it it doesn't provide, it doesn't replace the brace. It gives the brace something to push up against. And a vast majority of the people, um, like proper bracing is a skill. And a vast majority of people either uh suck in their gut, because that's what they were told, uh, or they they just push their stomach out, um, which is not necessarily what I want them to do either. It's a little more nuanced than that. Um, but if I I'll put a belt on them, or I'll take one of the larger exercise bands and we'll do some like um uh some priming where I'll actually have them put the band around their belly and get it really tight. And I say, okay, I want you to, we're gonna go 10 reps of like expanding the belt, right? Or if they have a lifting belt in there, okay. 10 reps, I want you to fill the belt. Um, and I'll I'll I'll work with like some some pelvic floor work too. I said, okay, you know, activate the pelvic floor, expand or fill the belt, hold and then release. Um just because that's uh it it it is a skill, and I think it's one of those skills that can, you know, if you if you really kind of start with it and you work on it, uh, can save you a lot of grief later on down the line. You know, a lot of lot of a lot of avoidance of of back pain and hip pain and and all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 41:48

I love that. Yeah, Abella too, like you had mentioned, it's it's such a good like feedback, feedback mechanism where you have actual feedback to to the person so they can know what bracing feels like to a certain extent. But I love the idea of putting it further in the or further up in the session. And I do the same even for main movers, like if there is a squat or a hack squat, something like that, I'll usually hit like hamstrings before and get like a pump in the glutes and and the hamstrings. I do that with with everything, and it's it's funny because you know the the old school mentality would be like counterintuitive, but I've found it just helps people settle into movement patterns. Uh and even myself and my own experience and as well as the my the my clients, it just it just helps. So yeah, I definitely would uh I mean I I definitely am going to start incorporating core more more frequently in the in the primers.

SPEAKER_03 42:40

One one of the tricks that I use um is you take a lacrosseball. So a lot of a lot of people, even tactical athletes, have uh dead butt syndrome, right? Like the two by four.

SPEAKER_02 42:52

Right.

SPEAKER_03 42:52

I so I used to do um I used to be a strength and conditioning coach in like a clinical environment. Um so working with uh PTs and and chiropractors and massage therapists, and um they would they would treat the patient and then they'd hand the patient off to me to do their strength work. And what I noticed is even after all this PT work, chiropractic work, uh, you know, I'd go through their go through their exercises. The PT would give me their exercises, okay, let's do these exercises. And what I'd realize is like, you know, I'm looking, I'm looking at them doing the exercise, it's picture perfect, right? It's straight out of the book. I'm like, okay, do you feel your glutes? They're like, no. And so I think that was a big aha moment for me was that you know, just because somebody is is moving what looks right doesn't mean that the actual the right muscles are doing the job. And you know, body creates compensation patterns. One muscle's not working, it's gonna have other muscles do the job because you're still gonna like go upstairs and walk and climb and lift and all that kind of stuff. And so I found a lot of um a lot of tactile response. To be extremely effective. So actually, what I do for a lot of people, and this goes for back pain, especially, too, is again, majority of the time, if somebody's got back pain, uh, they've either got tight glutes uh that can't fully contract, or there's just no activation whatsoever. So if it's tight, you know, we'll do some release work on a on a um foam roller or lacrosse ball. But like when the tissue is ready, I'll I'll take the lacrosse ball and I'll have them lay down on the ground and they're gonna they're gonna bend their other leg that they're not, you know, that they're not using, and they're gonna put the lacrosse ball right under the butt, like right on the cheek. And I coach them through that, okay, as that ball is pressing up into the glute muscle, I want you to focus. I want you to flex your glute muscle and only your glute muscle and press back against that ball. And it's really interesting because like you'll see people like if they if they've got um a lot of back pain, a lot of time, you know, I'll have them do that and I'll be like, okay, go ahead and flex. And they're like, I am. No, no, like flex against the ball. They're like, I am, I'm flexing. And it's just like there's no movement, they can't tell. And there really is like you have to develop, and all of a sudden you hear this right? That muscle will start to contract. Um, you know, if you if you're well versed in it, uh, it's a cool priming tool because you could do like a crossball activations where, you know, each each each cheek, uh, do 10 activations on it. And then do you do kettlebell swings?

SPEAKER_02 45:30

I do.

SPEAKER_03 45:31

Okay. Do can't do next time you do kettlebell swings, do 10, right? Just start out, do 10. Don't activate, you know, do your normal stuff, but do 10 swings and then go do the crossball activations for each uh each glute muscle, and then try 10 more swings. Your posterior chain will light up like Christmas.

SPEAKER_02 45:54

I'm gonna give it a try.

SPEAKER_03 45:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:57

That's awesome. Oh, yeah, I appreciate it. I'm definitely definitely gonna give it a try, and I'll uh I'll let you know how it goes.

SPEAKER_01 46:02

Yeah, please do. Yeah. For sure.

SPEAKER_02 46:05

Yeah, so the the last thing that I really wanted to touch on um is more from the mental capacity standpoint. So um you are are you're currently doing research on this side, am I right?

SPEAKER_03 46:20

Um yes and no.

SPEAKER_01 46:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 46:23

Um, it's a bit like everything, it's a bit nuanced. Um, I'm currently getting my doctorate in uh so doctorate health sciences in uh looking into like exercise neuroscience. So, how how does exercise affect the brain? Um which is think of it as an opposite flow from like uh sports psychology, right? Sports psychology says, how can the brain help performance? Um the the exercise neuroscience is more of a bottoms-up. How can performance and exercise, what does that do to the brain itself? Um, but ultimately, like one of the things that I kind of really feel strongly about is the fact that you know, Western culture we've we've had for generations is the mind is body is is separate. And you know, the the more research we're finding, the more research that we're we're conducting and we're seeing the relationship between the body and the brain, the more I realize like they're they're not separate. They're not separate at all. It's it's it's all it's all one. They're they're you know, when it comes down to like signaling and what one does for the other, it's it's almost indistinguishable. So yeah, I guess that answer, so that's that's kind of where I'm where I'm looking at these days. That's kind of what I'm what I'm studying.

SPEAKER_02 47:45

Yeah. So what what are your main um, and again, keeping it like general, um, what are your main findings from like a practical standpoint with you know performance and how we can have that improve our our mental state?

SPEAKER_03 47:59

Yeah, um, one of the big ones that I I really love talking about is the effect of exercise on different areas of the brain um and then what the effects are. So um I did a talk with uh again, the last Pacific Northwest Tactual Fitness Conference, and I talked about um like down regulation of the amygdala uh using exercise and different types of exercise, what what works the best as per the research, um, what might be counterintuitive or counter uh productive. Um for listeners don't know, amygdala section of the brain, it's um there they're these two little almond-shaped size structures in the brain. So if you if you take your your fingers and you put them on the corner of your eyes and you move them back about maybe two inches right about right in front of your ear, and then you go about maybe half an inch in, you'll find your amygdala. Uh like I said, there's two almond shapes, and they're your they're your um think of it as like your smoke alarm. It's your warning, it's your um it's your fire alarm that something's something's off. And it can, in a lot of tactical athletes, uh they can be overactive, um, you know, based on the fact that tactical athletes kind of live in this environment where uh a lot of times everything is calm until it's not. And so there's a there's a expectation for quick reaction. And so that's one of the jobs the amygdala does, is it it's a threat detection, uh reaction. And here's the crazy thing, too, is so the amygdala, I'm gonna I'm gonna kind of butcher the times here. I think the the amygdala takes something like you know, 300 milliseconds, 100 100 to 300 milliseconds to take in information uh and determine if it's a threat or not. And then you know, pretty much initiate a reaction order to the body. Um it takes almost two or three times as long for that information to go into the prefrontal cortex. Now, the prefrontal cortex is the reasoning part of your brain. So let's say there's something happens, right? It's um, you know, name name the event. Something happens, somebody jumps out at you. That information is going to reach your amygdala faster than it's gonna make reach your prefrontal cortex, which means the the threat and the response are gonna happen a lot quicker, especially if it's primed, like it is in tactical athletes, like that that uh that pathway is is really primed, is really myelinated. Uh, and so it's gonna happen even quicker before the prefrontal cortex can take that information, process it, and make sense of it. Um so and and you see this kind of carried out, unfortunately, in uh a lot of the news kind of unfortunately covers the downside of a lot of this. Um you know, police officers that react to something, uh you know, maybe it's maybe it's a and and I'm not here in any of these situations. I haven't done a deep dive analysis on any of these situations, but I think it'd be worth a study is you know, um a kid jumps out uh with a squirt gun, and you know, the next thing you know is it's on the nightly news how you know a police officer uh unfortunately had to uh pull his weapon on the kid and shoot him. I know that's happened multiple times before. Um, but when you think about it, that threat response goes to the amygdala for to the amygdala before the prefrontal cortex can even make sense of what's going on. And so there that reaction time is just like it's it's trained in there for a reason. It's a survival mechanism. Um and I think it's I I've found it's pretty interesting how different different types of exercise can help kind of re-establish control of the prefrontal cortex over the amygdala. Um, it can help um kind of soften the amygdala's reaction, um, almost kind of desensitize or resensitize the amygdala um to normal activity. Uh, because ultimately, like this is, you know, it's it's a it's a fantastic threat detection response if you're in a firefight, if you're rushing into a fire, you know, burning building. It's not necessarily the response you want to have at the dinner table or like your kids' soccer match, right? Um, so yeah, that's the kind of stuff that I'm looking at right now. And uh it's it's just fascinating to to kind of see, to understand it from a uh a mechanistic standpoint. I always said like tactical athletes, like we never bought into the whole um uh we never bought into a lot of the the brain science stuff because it's always kind of very woo-woo. We don't do woo-woo very well.

SPEAKER_00 53:08

No.

SPEAKER_03 53:09

Um we're we're very much just like, all right, we need to, if you know, we we have a weapon, we're gonna know how to deconstruct it, we're gonna know like where the um where the jam is uh when we fire, we're gonna know all that kind of stuff. And so breaking it down to a mechanistic level, you know, this causes this, this causes this. Uh when I did the presentation, it was a room full of um, you know, police and and military, and everyone was just like, oh, I finally get it. That makes so much sense. Um, so it was really good to kind of see a lot of light bulbs coming because that's the light bulb that that happened with me, too. Um so yeah, that's stuff I'm I'm working on.

SPEAKER_02 53:50

That's really cool. I my mind immediately goes to, and I know we've talked about it before, um, and you helped me out with the uh the the survey for the research that I was doing. Um my mind goes to things like selections or things like that where you know like your mind is is kind of giving in a little bit, but you know your body has more. Um are you finding anything with research to to that regard? Like, is there a way to train your mind to you know kind of push that that governor, if you will?

SPEAKER_03 54:22

Yeah, um, I mean, stuff that I'm I'm looking into, more of kind of like a like a personal interest side project, mainly because you know, your survey um brought, you know, I was it was stuff I was kind of working on, but like, you know, answering the questions you had in your survey kind of brought out some more uh elements that I was working on, which I was really grateful for. Um, you know, I I kind of talk about a little bit of like the you know the barrier. Where's the where's the barrier where, you know, and everybody, anybody who's working out will, you know, do you know doing fitness or exercise or doing a training program will understand this. So like what's that point where your your brain makes that first offer where all of a sudden uh exercise, the cost of exercise, um becomes a perceived threat in your brain. And so your brain is kind of like that, uh, a little bit like that kind of sleazy lawyer in the back and kind of makes that uh makes that first offer, like, hey, you don't need to go that hard. Hey, maybe, maybe if you pull back on this one, we'll go hard on the next one. Um, and you know, it's not it's not always what I found it's it's not always about uh disregarding that offer. It's about really analyzing that offer. Um analyzing what you're actually feeling. Like we kind of talk about, we all talk about like listen to your body and you know, what does that actually mean? And I think the other half of that coin is like actually understanding the language your body's telling you. Um, you know, from a from a fitness standpoint, from a workout standpoint, from a performance standpoint, you know, understanding uh the moment. So I call it the barrier. Um what what is the point where exercise all of a sudden becomes costly for your brain, right? It's utilizing utilizing glucose stores, um, it's starting to ramp up uh uh lactate production. Um it's starting to uh release a variety of of catecholamines and neurotransmitters, which are all good stuff, but they're all kind of like they they can be a bit of a warning signal, like the heart rate's racing, uh breathing is increasing, might get an amygdala response, um uh cortisol might be might be elevating. And it's that first check of like your body going, what's going on right now? What uh what what are we doing there, human? And you know, I I found it was it was really uh educational for myself and to my to my other athletes to just be able to identify that. Hey, you're gonna experience it. We're all gonna experience it. So let's let's let's let's identify the elephant in the room. Like when it hits, like I'll tell my athletes, look, I want you to, when it hits, tell me, right? And so it's great. Some of my athletes were like, hey, that lawyer's talking. And uh and and part of the training of what we'll do is we'll actually, and it it it's never it's never a start, like they never get it right away. It's it's a training aspect, it's a skill. And I kind of help um like train them through that experience. Like, okay, quick check, like, are you in any pain? No. Okay. Are you are you close to failure? You know, like muscular failure, cardiovascular failure. Are you no? Okay, cool. We we can keep going. Right? And it's it's just a it's I don't think it's anything, you know, groundbreaking. Uh, but it's just kind of asking the athlete to kind of dig a little bit deeper and understand some of the signals their body's telling them and and how to respond. Um, and telling them, like, okay, you know, we're we're actually gonna learn uh how to say no to that to that lawyer, to that barrier, uh, and and how to push past it. It's gonna take some time. And I think tactical athletes, anybody's been through kind of any kind of a selection, um, probably has an easier time of that than than uh, let's say the average general population. And I do notice a difference, like big difference. Like that voice comes, that that lawyer voice comes, that that uh barrier comes in general population a lot quicker than it comes in tactical athletes. Um, I don't know if that's a um that's just one of those things that makes tactical athletes tactical athletes. Uh, I'm a little bit more inclined to believe that it's just due to the training, right? You've somebody else is pushing you past that barrier, so you're like, I got no choice. Um but it's really kind of fascinating to to do that little self-experiment on yourself and and uh really listen to what your body's telling you and and then be able to negotiate back and be like, no, no, no, we're gonna keep going here. So I don't know if that makes any makes any sense. I it does. That's I feel like I write it down a lot better than I no, that is really cool.

SPEAKER_02 59:24

And I love I love how you said kind of negotiate back and kind of learning and and you know, using whether it's stress inoculation, doing a little bit more each time, and and kind of listening to that lawyer. But I think that's very, very powerful of negotiating back instead of just saying, all right, here's the white flag, like the lawyer's talking to me, white flag, and then you just learn how to negotiate back with it. I think that is is very, very cool. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 59:51

And I and I think you know, there's there's two, like everything, there's two sides to it, right? Um, a lot of tactical athletes kind of go the other way, where they'll hear the voice, and there's a little bit of like kind of self-punishment, like, all right, voice came, I'm gonna push it even harder. Which isn't always bad, right? Sometimes that's the right answer. Um, but I always encourage my athletes to remember what the purpose of the session is, right? So if we're doing a really good case about this, is like I'm I'm a big fan of like low aerobic work, um, building up a real, like a true foundation um of aerobic training. It's that whole pyramid, you know, performance pyramid, right? The the the larger or the wider the base, the taller the pyramid could be. And so if we're doing you know, heart rate training or zone tree training or something like that, and I, you know, actually have them on a watch or something like that, um, they might get that response. And it what's interesting is for a lot of people, that first little barrier is going to uh correlate with a rough, it's you know, it's all rough these, you know, with the with the uh technology and the wearables, um, is gonna correlate somewhere around that barrier between like zone two and zone three. Um one of the one of the tools I use quite a bit is like nose breathing, especially if nobody has, if somebody doesn't have a watch and a heart rate monitor, it's like, all right, breathe through your nose. Um and when you when you cross that physiological barrier where you know fat and oxygen, that beta oxidization where fat and and oxygen are being utilized as a primary fuel source, and then it starts to switch to more uh glycolytic, there is a little bit of that like catch in your breath of like I need more oxygen to kind of shift energy systems uh slightly. And um that for a lot of people, that's where that first little voice comes in. Um, and so being able to train them around that and and understanding what the purpose of the session is. If the purpose of the session is to stay aerobic and stay in zone two, then we gotta listen to that voice, right? That's our voice telling us something. Um, so we always got to keep keep in mind what the purpose is. Um, and that's and that's the hard part for a lot of tactical athletes, because we were all trained like, oh, we're we're feeling we're feeling a little soft. Well, then go harder. You know, I know that's how I was how I was trained in the military. And like I said, sometimes that's a yes, sometimes it's a that's not the purpose of the movement. I remember I was working with this one guy, this one kid. Um, you know, he was trying to, he was getting ready, he wanted to go to buds. Um and uh so I was just kind of like just initially helping him with his with his training. And uh he was like, oh, you know, I do powerlifting and I do CrossFit. And I was like, okay, cool. How's how's your running? He's like, Oh, I, you know, I do a lot of sprints and all that kind of stuff. I'm like, okay. When was the last thing we do the long running? Uh and he's like, oh, you know, I I can do like two or three miles. I'm like, great. Your first assignment is I want you to go as far as you can breathing through your nose. If you if you have to breathe through your mouth, if you if you hit that cap, you're done. And he contacted me a little bit, you know, he did it, and he contacted me the next day. He's like, I think I made it half a mile. You know, so I was like, okay. And and the beauty of that is like that's data, it's all data, right? So super strong, uh super anaerobic, um, a lot of a lot of power, a lot of strength, but no cardiovascular, right? No, no foundational aerobic uh capacity. And you know, the the reality of is, and you know, I can't speak to some of these other selection courses. I can only speak to the you know the one that I went to. Um, but it's it's it's not like you're gonna be performing for a few minutes, right? And then, okay, good, you're done. We're gonna rest the rest of the day, or we're gonna take a five-minute break. That ain't gonna happen. Like you're getting beat all day. You're getting beat for 16 hours, and then you're gonna go to sleep, and you're gonna wake up and you're gonna get beat for another 16 hours. And you know, some days it's just a constant movement. And so, what you're trying to do is you're trying to build that base and that capacity uh to handle that. So I think I went off on a tangent start.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:22

Oh, that's good, and and recover too. I think that's like missing pieces where people will say all the time, or like I'll hear people saying, Oh, I'm getting ready for my PT test. It's like, okay, well, what are we doing? Oh, I'm just doing a mile and a half or two miles and maybe some calisthenics. I'm like, okay, well, let's go easy. And they're like, What's that? I'm like, yeah, exactly. Like, no, it's not just about, you know, and they're like, oh, but my pace is very slow. I'm like, your pace doesn't matter for the the zone two or easy work. Like, let's just copy intent. The amount of times that I say intent with the sessions, and one thing that I've found one thing that I've found helpful is I call them strategic gut checks where it's like we're gonna add them in where it's like, hey, here's some bike sprints for you, max effort at the end of the session when we're doing we already did what we need to do, so you know what hard feels like. Now we're going to do the opposite. Like now do the opposite of what you did on those air bikes, or here's easy work. Now go hit arms after, or like something like that. Little things that you know, I think allow the the compliance and and again the intent. I think that's super, super important.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:34

I I I think he nailed it right there, the intent. You know, what's the intent of what we're doing? Um, because I remember somebody, again, I can't remember the name or who said it, but it was if you if you train hard on your easy days, you're gonna train easy on your hard days. And you kind of get this gray, this gray result, this like this monotone performance. Will you get better? Yeah, you're gonna get a little bit better, but I think. You're gonna kind of dull some of the performance aspects and you're gonna dull some of the recovery aspects. So, you know, when it says easy, go easy. When it says hard, have at it, go hard. Um, and understand, I think that's you know, the the beauty of being a coach and having a coach is to understand the balance between those two. Um, because I know a lot of tactile athletes that uh would would just go hard every day, all day if they could. Um, and I'm telling you from again from experience, that works until it doesn't. And man, when it doesn't, yeah, injuries come out of nowhere.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:36

It's like it's like no, that didn't that didn't come out of nowhere.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:39

Oh yeah, injuries, uh uh uh metabolic issues, um, sleep disruption. I mean, you know, I had a I had a lot of, you know, I don't know if we have time for this on the podcast, but like I went through um back up a little bit. Like I used to train a lot for Spartan races. And uh, you know, that's kind of at the time that's how I trained. Like it was just hard all the time. Did it work? Yeah, I looked great. I had like 8.8% body fat. Um, I went to like Spartan World Championships, like I wasn't like the finalist, mind you. I was in the open, but you know, running up the mountain of Squaw Valley and running down, oh, and doing obstacles on the way. Like I was in shape and I was 40 years old.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:26

It's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:27

Um, and it was fantastic until the crash happened, until all of that hard work caught up uh with the overtraining, and it it just wrecked me. It absolutely wrecked me. Um metabolically, it kind of wrecked me. Um, you know, wrecked my testosterone levels, it wrecked my thyroid. Um, you know, and that's kind of that's stuff that I've I've you know, I've made those mistakes and I'm living with them and working through them, and I'm I'm trying to help other people not.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:58

Yeah, no, they they just need to have an open mind and actually listen and not just go through the the same things. But Coach Greg, I appreciate your time. This was friggin' awesome, and I got some uh some homework to do myself. So I appreciate I appreciate some of the uh all the insight um that you gave. I got I want to end on one question here. Um we we talked a lot about barriers and and kind of pushing through with that mental capacity portion. I'm gonna put you on the on the on the clock here with a test. So if you had 60 seconds to teach someone to endure those barriers, what would you tell them?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:35

Oh my god, 60 seconds. Are we are we going now?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:39

Yeah, oh yeah, we're gone.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:41

Oh 60 seconds. All right. I think the most important thing is to is to start to realize like some of the signs and signals that your body is sending you and to really take those and don't don't take them at full at face value, right? Um your body wants to tell you something because we're we're it's in a state, right? It's in a state of panic, uh, heart rate's elevated. That's all normal. You really have to take those moments and be like, am I injured? Uh uh, am I in pain? Uh am I finding failure? But most importantly, am I sticking to the intent of what we're supposed to be doing? And it's it's a quick thing, so it takes some time to develop it. So don't expect to get it right out of the bat. But you got to train those skills, you got to train that that interrogation of um that signal. And you do it over time, and you're gonna have it's it's gonna happen really quick, but it takes some time. So give it that time, give it, give it's due justice. Um, but if you do that, it's gonna be very quick, like check, check, check, nope, keep going. Or ooh, yeah, pain. I need to, I need to assess this. Um, it's okay to listen to your body. That's fine. You also got to understand what language it's speaking.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:00

Damn, drop Mike. That is awesome. I appreciate it. I put that, I put the pressure on you and you you knocked it out of the park. So uh yeah, I appreciate you. Like I said, uh, we I would love to have you back on, especially after um, you know, some of the courses that you have upcoming. I'd love to hear about them. Um, and I'd love to to you know keep teaching people. So I appreciate you. Um and yeah, until next time.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:23

Yeah, Justin, hey, thanks so much. I I'm honored, honored I was on got to be on your podcast.